People try to make other people seem small way too much @[email protected]
If u dont have anything nice to say, then might as well keep ur mouth shut :\\
Wow, I came back like 3 days later and this is still going on.

Half the people who probably talked shit about me on this thread are blocked for good reason. Ironic enough, when I do actually try to confront them they just turn into quivering masses of jelly, get triggered and scream "dun mess wit muh fren", start hurling insults, accuse me of being "abrasive" (as if i need to consider their feelings when I'M being harassed, damn victim blamers) or some other nonsense.

Block them = "you're wrong avid"
Ignore them and pretend to listen = "you're wrong avid"
Make a valid point = "you're wrong avid."
Except 95% of the time, I'm not.

Tons of people have seen your(aka the community member's) ways, I come across them everday, they outwardly express discontent with the BYOND commnunity and the way douche bags like Yut Put rage for no reason or attack random people who come into the community.

When you make exceptions for people because you perceive them to be special (as if anyone copying everyone elses work is *actually* special, then you open up the door for all the B.S. You see on this thread.

"Dun attack my fren" > Shut up, your "fren" goes around starting shit with everyone else because he has an inferiority complex larger than DT standing next to Obama.

There's a reason this community is dying, and its not RIP games or "crappy Coders". It boils down to a few simple reasons:

***TOXIC people that mods refuse to punish, because they are buddies. This discourages your forum from being active, killing forum health.

***Developers who target other people for developing, yet never actually produce any good games themselves ( dark souls and legend of zelda clones don't count--steam sales should tell you that..) or to requote someone's last words to me before they got blocked "where's the gameplay"?

***A community that refuses to improve with the times, for instance the insistence that people should read through an outdated guide in order to learn instead of just taking some time and making video tutorials is a great way to up the overall programming knowledge.

This increases the likelihood that people who actually want to make games using this software stay around long enough to do so. Pointing to outdated material instead of just making a central place to view "how-tos" is counter productive.

***A search system for the website/forum that only works if you know exactly what you're looking for is pointless to have, since search engines by default are meant to help you FIND things.

This comes into play after being specifically told to "go read stuff" if you want to learn.

There is no situation in this world where any concept or community can flourish without addressing its problems. So when I point these things out and automatically get hatred for them, or people attempting to silence me, I see it for what it is--you're not ACTUALLY committed to making the community better, you're just looking for scape goats to make yourself feel better. As far as me being an asshole, have you ever considered that you get treated with the same amount of venom you approach me with? Let that sink in.

If BYOND dies, it's because of the nonsense spewed on this thread, and others like it -- and nothing more.

One person can't ruin a community(Unless you're Gateway Ra apparently o.O), but 100+ people can. Rather than trying (and failing) to scapegoat me, how about you shut up and actually do something constructive with your time?

This is your calling card and it goes to anyone it applies to. (I'm sure Ter will screenshot this and get it into the right hands, no worries.)

Real Life Example for the people who claim real news is fake, in the PUBLIC BYOND discord channel dozens of people WATCHED someone actively try to con me, only ONE person said anything, the rest giggled like school girls. When said con didn't go as planned and I confronted the person in said discord channel, I was then verbally attacked by multiple people, resulting in me being banned.

How does that work?

Hypocrites. *shrug*
We will never die, maybe become slightly less organized.
In response to Kozuma3
I think you're right.

Xenophobia has never, ever helped anything grow. Nor has restriction of knowledge, which in my opinion I think a great deal of info is purposely withheld to make it more difficult to allow people to develop.

Which once again is completely counterproductive to growth. I don't even understand the accessibility debate. You make things easier to use, more accessible and people use them. It's not really a hard sell.

Are they worried that steam will be overrun by DBZ or naruto rips?
at 100$ an entry i doubt that. Then, IP conflicts which steam will NEVER allow.

All in all, I just don't get it but, most things that don't make sense probably involve money. So that could be why.
Avid, there's one more issue .. you're feeding them .. Sure you're defending yourself .. but whats the point?

Seriously, take a huge step back and look at it, what is the point?

If you want to portray yourself as a programmer for hire, stay positive, stay professional and stay the hell away from public discussions.

Some of the OP was valid, a reasonable question was asked RE rates .. However .. a moderator should have chimed in and removed or questioned why the more personal stuff was posted. It's actually a clear example of how this community is toxic ..

Both sides (no offence) are childish IMO, but it didn't have to be that way, a simple question about a persons rates and some discussion on what people thought was reasonable should've been it. And, not a discussion about what one person thought was poverty or not or slander etc.

From an outsider perspective, both of you are toxic. Again no offence, it's just my view on this whole mess..

I agree. This thread was created specifically to incite an individual. However, Avid's sympathy goes away completely when he sends people PMs threatening legal action. That's the kind of thing there should be a public PSA for. Don't work with this person. You say anything negative about the guy, he's gonna threaten to sue you. By and large, the mods have stopped caring about Avid threads. The guy has repeatedly posted public off topic call-out/fight-me-irl threads directed at other users. He's done the same thing to other people on this forum. Why bother filing the corners down when he's been screaming since 2011 about being cyberbullied/harassed by literally every single person on this forum he's ever interacted with? Especially why do it when the main reason he posts is to post fight-me-irl threads directed at anybody who happens to irritate him?

There's no point. He's incapable of introspection and self-awareness. Some users are worth trying to salvage. Dariuc had his chance back in 2011. He's long gone.

This coming from someone who has repeatedly in this thread defended Avid against OP's original bullshit. There's no bias here. Just years of experience that have given me ample reason to see a regular problem user the way they present themselves.

I'm all for live and let live, letting someone live down their past behavior. I've offered multiple, multiple times to forget about 6 years of history of this shit happening. But it keeps on happening. He keeps doing the same shit. It's never going to change. Either he's going to keep being a source of dumpster fires in the future, or he's going to cross the line and get himself banned. It's just his nature at this point:

You call him on his shit once, you are gonna wind up dealing with him accusing you of sending people to harass him, being part of some grand conspiracy to fuck with him. He'll delete threads and then lie to people about what happened in those threads, and when you start screencapping what he says to keep him accountable for what he's said, he'll throw that out as stalking/harassment. You call him a chronic liar and show screencaps that prove he's one? Guess what, guy will start threatening you with slander, and accuse you of modifying your screencaps.

He'll pagerban you, you'll say something that slightly triggers him, then send you a bunch of threatening pager messages calling you out, then pagerban you before you can respond.

You pager ban him? He calls you out publicly on the forums calling you a coward and making legal threats and claiming shenanigans about his crack legal team.

The really sad irony though, is that all the people he rails about needing to be banned are the BYOND community. They are the ones making games, writing tutorials, helping in Dev Help, trying to maintain the documentation, and attempting to report bugs and get features implemented to help them work with the software. Even if we banned every person he'd had beef with, the guy would still be begging for more bans, more people to be gone, and blaming all of his negative interactions on the site on everyone else.
In response to Ter13
If that's the case, why not just simply post about rates and perhaps more subtly suggest people stay away from hiring this individual ..

Not a rant about not having a degree (pointless anyway) and personal att...

Actually, nevermind I'm not getting sucked back into this shit.

I've shoved all the BS from this place into a deep dark place in my mind. I just don't care anymore, about the community that is, which is sad.

Wishing you all the best Ter, hope things are going in your favour mate.
I feel bad for BYOND.
Avidanimefan said:
As far as me being an asshole, have you ever considered that you get treated with the same amount of venom you approach me with? Let that sink in.

I find this hard to swallow, considering I've never been anything but cordial with you and you felt it necessary to shit on theoretical code I never wrote.

Edit: Also I'm sorry if anybody took offense to my joke directed toward CM. I'm sure he understood it to be a joke, but sometimes I forget that not everyone is on the Discord and from the outside looking in my comment may have seemed pretty rude.
In response to A.T.H.K
A.T.H.K wrote:
If that's the case, why not just simply post about rates and perhaps more subtly suggest people stay away from hiring this individual ..

Not a rant about not having a degree (pointless anyway) and personal att...

Actually, nevermind I'm not getting sucked back into this shit.

Nah, that's totally on point. I'm tracking exactly where you are going, and agree. I think overall though, it's kind of understandable that mods largely leave Avid threads alone given at this point, he's done the same things to other people while also begging mods to ban people he's feuding with and threatening them to try to get posts edited/removed.

Rolling back into your second bit, it's probably overdue that we pull the plug on the entire idea of a community. It's dead. Better to just consolidate the forums into a pure information environment and do our best to forget that anyone ever thought would be a place game developers could treat as though it was social media. It was a stupid idea then, and we're still paying for it today.

Get rid of the community section of the forum. Ditch the pager. It just causes drama and causes headaches to everyone involved.
In response to Ter13
Boi don't even act like you don't secretly love the BYONDrama. Everybody here feeds on it.
Not feasible, the amount of knowledge and power you need to be able to remove the byond pager thats so powerfully embedded inside byonds core, sadly its to much for Lummox to deal with. Not like its been asked for it to be removed 7 years and counting.
Shouldn't we change the title from 'BYOND Programmers' to 'BYOND's Drama' ?
I think the time has come to close this thread. Everything useful that can possibly be said has pretty much been said by this point.
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